"Hops and Hedges" Podcast S3.Ep.84 Michael Albanese, AVESI Stormwater

Hops and Hedges Podcast on Spotify with your Host - Heather Jerrard from My Landscape Artist

Original air date: Jan 7, 2026

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Hops and Hedges Podcast Episode with Special Guest: Michael Albanese from AVESI Stormwater

Description

In this engaging conversation, Michael Albanese, a landscape designer specializing in stormwater management and ecological gardening, reflects on his journey as a solopreneur. He discusses the importance of collaboration, the challenges of running a business, and the release of his new book, 'The Modern Rain Garden.' The discussion also touches on sustainable practices in landscaping, including the use of reclaimed materials, and the role of AI in improving business efficiency. Michael shares insights on navigating the complexities of book publishing and the significance of community support in the industry.

Transcript

BE ADVISED this transcript was created using the podcast publishing software and certain spelling or grammatical errors may be present.

speaker-0 (00:02.018)

There we go. With me today, back for episode number two for him, is Michael Albanese from Avesi Stormwater. Michael, welcome back. So we're bringing you back for your actually season or episode one of season three. episode. And I just wanted to celebrate you, your new book, but also you are currently the number one most streamed, most downloaded episode.

Pleasure.

speaker-0 (00:31.075)

of Hops and Hedges. So congratulations.

Wow, love it.

You're like a celebrity. There's no like a word or gold star. Just use your imagination.

this is the reward is a chance to be back again.

You can come back anytime. Michael, you are always welcome. So if anybody's interested in checking out that episode, it is episode number 49. So there you have it. So Michael, for those who have not heard or tuned in or watched that episode, can you give our listeners a download of who you are, what your business is, and why you're amazing?

speaker-1 (01:03.466)

Yeah, landscape designer, consultant, contractor, focusing on rainscaping. So everything that I do has an element of stormwater management and an element of ecological gardening. So what I do is basically the intersection of those two things. That's what I like to say is it's stormwater management plus ecological gardening. lately, I've been

really leaning into using different trade partners. So guys that do interlock, guys that do plantings, different types of things. Because I'm a kind of a one man show. Right. I'm sole proprietor, I don't have a big company or team of employees. So I leverage other trade partners to find who's going to be best at what and get the job done.

That's awesome. It's something that I can definitely relate to. You and I have this in common. I'm also solopreneur, right? And I mean, for me, Landscape Ontario has been a huge resource of tradespeople because I'm like you, I'm a one person show and stone is not my, I would say specialty because I'm not as strong as I think I am.

So I go like really hard for about an hour and 40 minutes and then my body just stops like full stop. Like you can't do this. Why are you moving boulders? You're 140 pounds. Stop it.

It's funny how you mentioned that because this year I actually was the first time that I had a back injury mid season. no. Yeah, it was like my fourth, I would say major back injury, but most of them, the previous three were all in either December or January where it's like, okay, I can just heal up this winter, no big deal. But it was really challenging to psychologically more than anything to deal with a back injury.

speaker-1 (03:06.624)

in the middle of having to work. Obviously, the nature of what we do is very physical. So I already had plans to lean on trade partners more and be more of the general contractor for the landscaping world sort of thing. But it's just kind of forcing my hand to do that even more. It also adds another layer of challenge to it because there's things that I want to do that I can't do.

I'm a big believer of there's enough work out there for everybody. I don't look at, and I know you're the same way. I don't look at other companies and other contractors as competition. I look at them as how can we feed each other business? How can we get the best result for the customer? Cause at the end of the day, that's what really matters is how can we get the best result for the customer? And if that's me, or if that's not me, it's my job to

make that happen. It's not my job to physically do it.

Yep. And that's so huge for creatives like ourselves, as well as the solo printers, right? Is that we come with this abundance mindset to the table. It's not me or you. It's me and you, right? So you and I, we're both designers, but we have people in our wheelhouse that are really good at what they do. I have one contractor, actually there's two, who are really good at the stonework.

specifically locally here in London, like they are my guys, right? One of them, they just do all my installs for me, like any kind of stone paver, slabs, anything like that, they do it all. But the other contractor, they love to build, but they don't like to design. So it's a win-win because I can't install, right? My work truck is a Honda Civic. It doesn't hold a lot of mulch.

speaker-0 (05:06.142)

I figure I can get about 25 bags of soil and about 15 bags of mulch. I figured this out this year. And I can get almost a dozen rolls of sod in the backseat.

Yep.

speaker-1 (05:21.186)

in the backseat with a tarp, I hope.

Nope, there wasn't a tarp. Long story short, my husband did not leave me. Yep, he still loves me. But I did pay to get the card detailed.

Okay.

speaker-1 (05:35.02)

Of course, of course. Well, you guys have been through so many flooded basements together, a dirty backseat isn't going to tear you apart now.

I was listening to the previous episode, that's where the callback comes from.

that way? Yeah, you threw me off guard there. I was like, wait, I don't remember us talking about this. Yes. So our basement has flooded three or four times now. And the last time stung a little bit more because I had painted everything. I had dry walled everything, new insulation. We had put in, I painted everything and we had put in a brand new $7,000 floor.

Yeah.

And then the basement flooded again because someone, I won't mention names, someone forgot to replug in the sump pump.

speaker-1 (06:24.46)

Right, yeah, that'll do it. They need to be plugged in.

Yeah. But we're still, still, still doing it. Still doing it. The dumpster is in our driveway right now, filled with drywall and insulation. But enough about that. Talk about rainwater and the importance of stormwater management, huh, Michael?

Yeah.

speaker-1 (06:45.016)

Yep.

So, which reminds me, because I think you and I, were talking in season two about you coming to my place to see this. I'm telling you, the water table is so high where we are. And yeah, if our sump fills and the sump pump isn't plugged in, then we get a flood. So. Yes, you're going to come over and help me with that.

Yeah.

speaker-1 (07:08.514)

Yeah, we'll do a live on location podcast slash landscape consultation.

Love that. And then I'll also have to figure out how we... see people with these lapel mics, you know, and they're walking around with really cool cameras and stuff.

Yeah, yeah, I know what mean. I actually got a for Christmas my wife bought me a it's called like a POV camera. So you like put it on your your chest. I think it just has a built in mic but I see people walking around with these little like

I know it looks so funny. They're holding like tweezers.

like a little microphone. Yeah, like a tweezer, like they're holding up a moth on a set of tweezers, and they, yeah. Like, is that how they get such a good sound quality?

speaker-0 (07:48.63)

It's the moth. Yes, the furry moth microphone thing. Must be. It's very high-end tech. Yep. New age stuff. So aside from you being, you know, top episode, you've got lots of things going on. 2025 was a big year for you and your business.

Huge,

So how many years in business?

That was year 10. Year 10. was year 10, yeah.

Cheers to you. Oh yeah, because you've got a fizzy water, right?

speaker-1 (08:18.262)

I do, yeah. I think, excellent. the foam granite water.

Cheers to you! Ten years, that's amazing!

speaker-1 (08:28.11)

Yeah, considering my first year, think I had one, maybe two customers. other one customer I got from organically, the other one was like a friend of my parents, which doesn't really count. Right. But yeah, a lot of lot of lean years at the beginning, a lot of years of this is this actually going to work?

Yeah, they count though, because that ripple effect, right? So I actually just celebrated 2025 was my fifth year in business. I started during COVID, like at the start of COVID, rather than starting it before. So you would have gone through COVID already being in business.

For sure.

speaker-1 (08:57.752)

Congrats!

speaker-1 (09:09.634)

Yeah.

couldn't imagine that.

Yeah, it was weird. It was weird. COVID was. Luckily, we were not really super affected by that. know some people had a lot of people in the trades were like, you know, I the phone won't stop ringing. Everybody wants to, you know, redo this and redo that. Yeah, we're so busy. I it was pretty because COVID was still I was still fairly young. Yeah, the word wasn't like the way it is now. It was a pretty.

You know, from 19 to 20, was pretty... It didn't affect me a whole lot. Yeah. Yeah. I had brain garden projects from a local nonprofit that I was, I built that year, probably half a dozen and a few other gardening projects, landscape projects that kept me busy. So yeah, I was fortunate that way.

Sorry, just gonna...

speaker-0 (10:05.582)

That's so cool. how was business-wise, was 2025 for you? It's been so interesting talking to different people about what 2025 was.

Yeah, 2025 was great. was, I mean, financial wise, top line revenue was, you know, far exceeded any other year. Yeah. I'll have to at the end of the year, go through all my numbers and see where, where bottom line revenue is. think it's a little bit misleading right now, because like I said, I use a lot of trade partners. So there's a lot of flow through capital, but still I look at it as a positive. The more

money I'm managing the better. And I feel like our quality is increasing with that. We did a lot of projects this year that we haven't quite done before, but still on the theme of ecological gardening and rainscaping. So yeah, it a great year.

And you're a Hamilton area, right? Yeah.

Yes, basically Hamilton, Dundas, Burlington is where I like to stay. I still have a few legacy clients in Oakville and Kitchener, but right now I'll consult anywhere. I'll consult literally anywhere across the world with the power of the internet. But construction wise, I like to stay to that, the Western edge of Lake Ontario.

speaker-0 (11:29.646)

Have you submitted anything to the LO Awards before?

No, no, I don't even really even know how that works. People like I see people winning awards and I'm like, I mean, that looks sick, looks award worthy, like, How does that process even happen?

Yeah, that's something I have not yet. Every year I say, I should really do that. It's one of those things where it just gets away from you, right? Being a soul printer, can only do kind of so many things. So, but maybe one day you and I, shall grace the stage.

Yeah.

speaker-1 (12:02.606)

That's right. That's right. And watch out world. On our last episode, you mentioned Latescape Ontario's peer to peer network group. Yes. Which sounded cool. Sounds like something I would want to be a part

I introduced you. Did I not send it? Wow, Heather, it's just been a year.

It has. And with the how busy business is and with, you know, life, I also have a two and a half year old and my wife is expecting and, you know, within the next two weeks. Two. Yeah, like imminently, I just don't really have time for like a lot of auxiliary stuff. So a lot of stuff, just kind of a lot of really cool opportunities that I would love to take advantage of. They kind of just like drift on by me just for just time.

Within two weeks, baby number two.

speaker-0 (12:53.482)

I hear you. 2025 was, for me, was a year of really reevaluating my priorities because I had a wall in about June, I think it was June or July. I got an email from a client. They were wondering where their design was and I had no idea who they were. Like I had completely, completely dropped the ball. And it was really this bit of a wake up call for me that's like, okay, my...

My CRM, like I am not managing this by myself. I have too many people, I have too many clients to just do everything by myself. I'm probably pricing way too low and things gotta change because it's like June and I was already feeling the burnout. I was only starting. And mean, you're talking about the back injury that you had in 2025 and thank goodness, knock on wood, I didn't.

Yeah.

speaker-0 (13:50.198)

have any injuries that would have like it could have ruined my business when I think about it. Right. I didn't have anything in place to kind of look after that. And this year I'm actually I'm going for quite an invasive elective surgery that I don't have a date yet for where I'm going to be out of commission for like six to eight weeks. Right. And that could be like July or August. So

Yeah, right in the heat of it.

Yeah. So this year for me, it's like, okay, get the people, right? Surround myself with those people that can really help manage and organize. I need to get better at delegating, right? All of these things that you and I, started our business because we love what we do. And then we're kind of learning all of these things along the way. I didn't think about that. I didn't think about that.

True.

speaker-1 (14:45.376)

I saw that you did make a hire this year and I wanted to ask you, because it's something that I've been looking at is hiring someone. What I keep coming back to, if I were to hire someone, what kind of tasks would this person do? So that is my question to you.

Sorry, I have something in my teeth. That's really professional of me, but I just can't leave it. I just can't. I fixate on it. So what's really interesting. So this is something that we were talking before we started recording that I'm speaking next week at Congress on AI and landscape design and also designing our landscapes for climate change, right? More resilient landscapes. And in my research with AI, some of the stuff that I've

No, no.

speaker-0 (15:34.99)

started digging into. It's a rabbit hole. Let me just warn you. But finding out what tasks you can delegate to an assistant is something specifically that ChatGPT has helped me with. And I had no idea the capabilities ChatGPT can do in terms of the business, like the backend business side of things. without going down too deep of a rabbit hole.

Chat GPT has short-term memory and long-term memory. So if you don't log in to Chat GPT and you just ask a question or tell it to do something, it'll do it, it'll provide it to you, and then that will disappear once you leave chat and you come back, right? Where if you log in, you can actually tell Chat GPT, so in my instance, I told the AI, Chat GPT, once I'm logged in, that my name is Heather Gerard.

I'm a landscape designer in London, Ontario. My company is called My Landscape Artist. I'm a solo printer who just hired an assistant part-time. What sort of tasks can I delegate to this assistant? Update your memory. And what it does is it told me all of the business admin tasks that I could possibly, right? I'm not just gonna take it verbatim and give Denise all these things, but God bless Denise. She's been a lifesaver.

but it gives me an idea. And then at the end it says, memory updated. I now know who you are, where you're located, what your business is. Would you like me to take a look at your website and let you know how you can improve?

Wow.

speaker-1 (17:17.474)

Damn. Yeah, that's cool.

So one thing I definitely recommend yourself and also anybody else who's listening, if just to kind of get your feet wet, ha, a Vessi stormwater, you see what I did there? Get your feet wet in AI. Go to chat GPT and ask it. So for yourself, it's like who in the Hamilton, Ontario area provides landscaping services pertaining to stormwater management and rain gardens?

I do.

speaker-0 (17:50.126)

And if you don't come up right away, you, well, number one is a problem, but number two, ask it, well, what about a Vesse Stormwater management, right? And put in your own company and it will come back and say, oh yeah, yeah, they do do this, they do this, blah, blah. Would you like to know more about them? And you can see what's available online. AI can search, right?

That's a problem.

speaker-1 (18:11.479)

Wow, yeah.

speaker-1 (18:15.148)

Yeah, damn. That's cool.

It's a rabbit hole. It's a rabbit hole. So I'm excited to talk about it at Congress next week. Hopefully I don't get a little too crazy with it.

Well, yeah, like we were saying earlier, you'll have to pick kind of where you want to go with it. Because you only got an hour. It's going to have to be, you're either going to go lots of very wide, but not very deep on anything, or you're just going to pick one thing and go as deep as you can.

Yeah, because there's so much. mean, there's one thing with the visualizations, like using AI to actually create landscape designs. warning. Don't. There's so, there's so many issues, but using AI to improve your visualizations. So if you already have a design that's 3d and it's not rendered, you can tell AI, Hey, can you take this image and create a small video of somebody walking through the gate?

Yeah.

speaker-1 (18:55.502)

do that.

speaker-0 (19:15.02)

make it look like a Pixar movie, right? Like, or whatever. Then it's just giving you ideation to maybe help sell your design. Anyway, sorry, rabbit hole, finished. I want to talk about you. So you also have another book out.

Yeah.

speaker-1 (19:22.702)

Sure.

speaker-1 (19:26.722)

Not

speaker-1 (19:34.028)

Yes, yes the modern rain garden too. have a copy right here

it's beautiful. I haven't seen it yet. When did it come out? How did I do this? Oh my gosh, talk about being an entrepreneur and you miss stuff because I've been waiting for the second one. The first book was awesome.

June 26th, past year.

speaker-1 (19:53.122)

Yeah, this is, I basically, a little insight into the process here is the first version is on a giant Word document on my computer. So all I did was I duplicated that document, changed the font color to red, and just started writing the second version on top of it. And then as I did that, there's new chapters, there's probably,

I want to say four, five, six times the amount of photos. The first one wasn't very visual. This one is a lot more visual just because from 2018 to 2020, which was when the first one was written, I built, let's say X amount of rain gardens from 2020 to 2025, which was when this is written. I built probably X times 10 rain gardens. So

the knowledge I had then versus the knowledge I had now is, you know, it's two different worlds. So there's way more examples in it. And I just go deeper in like, you know, what can we do? How can we build these things? What's the easiest way to do it? I always say I've built many rain gardens and I never built the same rain garden twice. Right. And my approach is always

What is the simplest way to do this? It's like a chef. If you take two chefs, they both make amazing dishes. One used four ingredients, the other one used 24 ingredients. Would you not think that the one who used four ingredients probably knows a little bit something else that the one that used 24 doesn't know? Because they're both amazing, but one only used four and one used 24.

Hmm, that's a great analogy. I like that.

speaker-1 (21:45.9)

Yeah, I'm a big analogy guy. The first person that I that I learned stormwater management from back in university was constantly comparing stormwater management to the human body and the way that our bodies work and grow. So that that analogy really helped me kind of learn the the concepts of stormwater management. So when I teach it or when I teach landscaping or whatever it is that I'm teaching,

I'm always trying to find an analogy that works. And for me, the chef one, the food concept really works for the rain garden side of it for me.

And I mean, who doesn't like food?

Well, it's universal language, right? Everybody eats, everybody likes food. Yeah.

Hmm, interesting analogies. So if somebody wants to buy your book, should they get it?

speaker-1 (22:39.554)

Well, there's two ways to get it. Number one is through my website of scstormwater.com. eKitter.com. That's awesome. Yeah. Now that's really only for, well, anybody can buy it from the website, but it's typically for Canadians because what I have to do when it's bought through the website is I take from my stack of copies and I'll send it to you. shipping, I'm...

right on there.

speaker-1 (23:08.876)

I'm under charging for shipping just because I want the book to get out. Yeah. But for American customers, shipping is so expensive now that it doesn't make sense for me to sell it from Canada to the United States. Right. So the best way to get it, no matter where you are in the world, the best way to get it is Amazon. OK. Because Amazon, because it's published through Kindle Direct Publishing, it's basically a print on demand situation. So you're in California and you

purchase the book, there's not a stack of books in a warehouse in California. Kindle, the closest Kindle to wherever you are will print it and ship it to you from there. Wow. Yeah. So it's people really in our, in I'll say in our field, but you know, in the world that I'm in, which I'm Uber into like the environmental side of things, people are very anti Amazon. Right. And I think that's a little bit.

black and white, right? It's either all good or it's all bad. I get that Amazon is not great. There are bad things about it, obviously. But the reality of the situation is it gives people like me the opportunity to spread the message, which my message is good for the environment. Amazon provides a way to do that. people say, well, don't want to support Amazon, so I'll just buy it from you. But I live in Vancouver. OK, but now

Amazon's going to ship them to me and then I'm going to ship them to you literally across the country where you could just buy it and get it shipped from an Amazon in Vancouver. Wow.

That puts things into perspective a bit, doesn't it?

speaker-1 (24:48.078)

Yeah, yeah. That's something that's been on my heart that I haven't really put out there. So this is the first time I'm kind of like publicly giving a little back end of like how the book situation on Amazon works.

Right. That's great insight because I'm, I mean, I know I'm the one day, one day I'll write a book person, right? It's far away yet for me, but I often think that, you know, like I know you personally and I would love to support you directly than Amazon, but by ordering through you or your website, it's also more of a hassle for you, right? You might have to store more or you have to ship it.

So it's like a...

Yeah, it's, it's not so much that it's a hassle. I don't mind sending them to people locally. It's the other side of the Amazon thing is that if people are buying the book exclusively through me, because they don't want to support Amazon, right, then the book on Amazon does not rank well. So it goes down and down and down and down, unless people see it. Right. So then less people are going to know about rain gardens, going to get the chance to

build rain gardens, create rain gardens, have the confidence to build their own rain gardens because other people are saying that they don't want to support Amazon. They want to support me. But the best way to support me is to buy the book through Amazon is the reality of the situation.

speaker-0 (26:21.558)

Right. Okay. And so that's at avesistormwater.com. Right? Is the website. Yes. Well, now that I know it's available on Amazon, I actually have a recommendations page on my website. So my website is mylandscapeartist.ca and I have a page like through an affiliate program. So I'll, I'll put your book on there too, so that we can push more people to Amazon.

Yeah. I actually saw that on your website, the recommendations. You've got some great books on there.

I am a total book nerd. Like it's a borderline hoarding problem. So here, let's get really vulnerable here for a second. I think I can move my camera. Don't judge how messy my...

You're seeing my office right now.

So this is one bookshelf. I think that's your book there towards the bottom. Because I take that to all of my courses when I'm teaching or speaking. And then in front of me, have one

speaker-1 (27:11.916)

Yeah.

speaker-1 (27:25.902)

yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's a collection right there.

See? Thank you, Michael. It is a collection. It's not hoarding if it's books. Or-

It's true. You can never hoard enough knowledge. The only way you can hoard knowledge is if you don't share it with others.

Exactly. And I know some people, especially my husband, does not like writing in books or does not like people who write in books. I do. Those people are my books, right? And I like to revisit the books usually after Congress. So next week is Congress. Then I'm going to come home. I'm going to refresh my big vision board wall behind me here. And I also go through some of the books of 2025 and I

Okay. I'm one of the people. Yeah, because these are

speaker-1 (28:06.734)

Yeah.

speaker-0 (28:11.544)

take a look at what I highlighted to see does this still resonate with me? And I'm kind of I'm compiling like an Excel spreadsheet of all the all the juicy bits from all the books that I really like. So yeah, that's a weird nerd thing I guess that I'm doing. I'm not gonna get paid to do that but...

It will be will get paid in prosperity coming back to you because what you're doing is helping yourself provide more value to your clients.

I like that. Michael, you're hired.

Hire us your personal book collection. Book collection. That's right.

collection, cheerleader. Whenever I doubt a book purchase, I'll just, Michael, can I buy this book? Yes,

speaker-1 (29:00.312)

Yes, you can. Go ahead.

Perfect. So we talked about, you know, being the top episode, you're expecting baby number two, like any time within the next two weeks type thing. And you don't know if it's a boy or a girl.

We don't. didn't know with our first one either. We will know when they get here.

Okay, and what do you have now? Boy or girl? Boy. Okay. So when when baby arrives, where will we see this news? Is it LinkedIn? Are you Facebook?

We have a boy.

speaker-1 (29:30.456)

guy. Instagram typically is the platform of choice. Yeah.

Okay, another crazy, not crazy, habit that I have is crocheting. So once we know if it's a boy or a girl, I want to find out so I can send you a little something.

Love it. I'll let you know.

Perfect. Is there a theme for

The theme is gray.

speaker-0 (29:57.334)

Ooh, gray. Is it millennial gray? Super fancy, modern.

Kind of, yeah. Because we didn't, well, we actually, it's funny, we actually bought this house that we're in now from a couple that was just like us, but plus five years. literally had two little boys. think they were like four and two. And when they were moving out, the nursery that they had was just kind of like gray. One of the walls is white, one of the walls is gray, and the other

wall is like a it's like a faux light gray wood. So it's kind of like texturing cool. Yeah. You know, it's not like a gray asylum looking room. But yeah, it's not like super, you know, super pink or super blue. It's just kind of like a great little baby room.

My brain, I'm such a visual personality and you said asylum and I immediately thought of like padded walls in your nursery.

Yeah, well, I think our two and a half year old needs padded walls. Kids need the lunatic. Yeah, he we like to say that he has big emotions.

speaker-0 (31:04.479)

one of those.

speaker-0 (31:10.986)

yeah, I have a few big emotion people in my life as well. I think I might have been one as a child. Now I still feel the emotions, but I'm really good at just masking and pretending everything's okay.

Right, yeah. You've learned the art of bottling. Right? Yeah.

I'll schedule my explosion and my mental breakdown later, but right now I'm busy.

See? Yeah.

Right now it's not convenient for me or the situation, so I'll cry later.

speaker-1 (31:38.316)

Yeah, we'll just put a pin in that tier. Yeah.

That's so funny. What else did we want to talk about? had a whole bunch of different stuff. So last time, just looking at the questionnaire from your first episode, you mentioned the book, The Modern Farm in Homestead by Ben Falk. Is there another book since then? Was there something maybe from 2025 that you've read that kind of resonated with you? I mean, besides your book.

Mm. Fuck. Yeah, yeah, I read actually, I think it's in my collection here. Tiny and wild. I'm just gonna grab it.

speaker-0 (32:20.226)

I wanna know all the books.

Give me the dirt! Tiny and wild.

Yes. Build a small scale meadow anywhere. I love that. And I really like this book. And the other books that I tend to have read before the resilient farm and homestead. What's another one? Planting in a post wild world. New Naturalism, which is great, by Kelly Norris. Garden Revolution. These are all books I find super, super useful. Love those books.

but they seem to be mostly talking about landscapes that are massive, really, really big. And it's like, I get all that. I'm down with all that. But the work that I'm doing right now is not so much restoring two and a half acres of land. It's I'm building a garden or a landscape or a front yard in, you know, suburbia. That's really where I live. sometimes we go downtown Hamilton or

older Dundas where the yards that we're on are not huge, right? I love to be able to go into a small space and say, okay, we don't have a lot of room to work with. How can we make the most out of, you know, tight space? What can we do here? So building a small scale meadow, like taking those huge meadows where you have lots of plant interaction and distilling that down into something small was really important. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like you get

speaker-0 (33:51.406)

effective.

speaker-1 (33:55.202)

You still get the big drifts. You still get the textural variation, right? You still get the seasonal color changes, not only in foliage, but in flower. Yeah. You know, all those design principles that we like to talk about, but in something a little more condensed.

It's something that I really like too with my business is kind of focusing on these small spaces, right? And I mean, it's an alignment with sustainability too, right? And we're kind of anti sprawl and kind of using or doing the best we can with what we have. And if we have a small space, what can we do with that? And I'm not sure if you see it a lot where you are, but I know here in London, and maybe it's not a London thing, but I'm seeing it a lot is,

or these new builds and the houses are so close to each other that the side yard is actually useless to people. Like there's usually one side where there's a gate or a walkway or steps or something, some sort of side access, but then there's almost inevitably always one side of the house that it's too far from any door. So you're not going to put your compost there or your garbage there. You're not going to store anything there.

And it's just these dead spaces. So I always looked at it as an opportunity to, so can we do this micro meadow? Can we do a shade garden that is gonna benefit our pollinators? Or can we do some storm water management here that still looks good when you do see it? Or make it more of a destination.

100%. I call that side the forgotten side.

speaker-0 (35:38.424)

The forgotten side. Yeah?

Yeah, because with the how I got into the industry was doing stormwater management consultations in the residential sector. start to see patterns, you see enough houses, you see patterns. Right. It's always this is where my driveway is. This is where my front porch is. This is how I get into the backyard. And the other side is just the other side.

That's where the gas meter and the hydrometer is and that's it.

Exactly. And then it just so happens that your forgotten side meets up with your neighbor's forgotten side. So nobody goes back there ever. No. And it's just, you know, there's been some English Ivy here for 40 years and we don't really question it. You know, there are the downspouts leaking here, but we don't really. Yeah, it doesn't really matter. And it's just like all of these forgotten spaces have so much potential. And, know, you're you're you're taking something that's

see it.

speaker-1 (36:32.266)

is right now essentially a liability because it doesn't look good. It's not functioning well. You can't even access it. So the further away it is from something that's good, in my opinion, the easier it is to make it good, right? Like, yeah.

Hmm is this maybe book number three for you? Forgotten spaces or the forgotten side?

Yeah. Just call it the forgotten side. You know, I love how it has like a sci-fi kind of vibe to it. Yeah.

I'm digging it. You could do like the 80s sort of Tron, you know, look to it. Like neon lights and stuff.

Yeah, this is really shaping up well for me.

speaker-0 (37:11.778)

Or is it gonna be Stranger Things, where it's like the upside down kind of vibe? The Forgotten Side. It's not the upside down, it's the Forgotten Side.

I'll have to ask chat GPT should I go the strange stranger things vibe or Tron vibe.

Yeah, what will sell more books? geez, that's good. So, Michael, it's always a pleasure talking to you and I definitely don't want to cut you off or take up too much of your time. But is there anything else exciting happening in your life? I mean, we had your 10 year anniversary with your company. You've got a baby on the way. Book number two came out for you, which is awesome. Congrats. I am celebrating you from the sidelines and I'm cheering you on because

Yeah.

speaker-0 (37:52.424)

I one day will there's a book in me, you know? Damn it, there's a book in me. I just got to find it. So.

I believe that too though.

Yeah, it's exciting, kind of nerve-wracking.

Yeah, and if I could give you not that you asked me for advice, if I could give you, please if could give you any advice, okay, it would be the book that you write. Yeah. This is so cheesy and corny. It's cringy to say the book that you're writing one day.

you should start writing today. like even if you open up a word document and write one sentence, that is the start of it. That's where it starts. I had this friend in university who she would say to me, she was always so good at like getting assignments done early or and she'd never had time stress. She's in the same program as me. I got time stress. She doesn't. What's going on here? Yeah. And she always said, I don't overthink it. I just start writing.

speaker-1 (38:52.526)

And then I come back the next day and I edit that and then I a little bit more. And then I go back the next day and I edit that and I write a little bit more. So then instead of having to sit down and write something over the course of a week, I'll write a little bit over the course of a month and it's, you know, it's 15 minutes a day. Right. Yeah.

You are not the first person who has told me this, Obi-Wan. Yeah. Makes me think of my... This is something my dad would use to say, It's like, listen, young grasshopper. Mr. Miyagi! Yeah. It's definitely, You know, when you hear the same advice over and over and over again, it's not cheesy. It's, good advice. Thank you for the reminder. Maybe I'll write a sentence.

Yeah.

speaker-1 (39:22.342)

yeah, Mr. Miyagi.

speaker-1 (39:33.87)

There.

speaker-1 (39:37.806)

Do it. Open the Word document. The other thing, my dad's another person who is always going to write a book one day and he's going to be 70 next year. And I say, Dad, you know, one day is today. Let's let's be honest here. Yeah. I gave him actually a list of three things that I would do if I was trying to start writing my first book. So I should look into that. And maybe I'll put that on Instagram and be like, if you were going to write a book, what's the three things to get you started?

Okay. I will keep an eye out for that.

Do you answer your question? Is there anything else new and exciting? What I wanted to ask you is if you're seeing what I'm seeing in the world of landscape construction and landscape design is I'm on a really big kick right now on reusing materials. It can be wood. It can be old lumber. It can be old bricks. can be anything. am really, it can be rubble, concrete. I'm really big on

How can we create a situation where we're not having materials leave site? We're integrating stuff into what we're doing. Not everything has to be new in order for it to look revitalized.

That is a huge topic and it's kind of interesting to me. So where my brain is going in this moment is just yesterday. Actually, my husband and I were talking about the the Landscape Awards and how I believe it was last year or the year before that they started this green award. And I don't know if that's what it was called, but it was a design award for something that used a certain percentage of native

speaker-0 (41:21.248)

material plants. And they used LID or the low impact development construction elements when they're installing. my husband and I were just kind of sitting there for a second. look at each other and it's like, shouldn't that just, like there's no word for that, but that's just what we should be doing.

Yeah, yeah, it should be it should just be standard practice

That should be standard practice. And so it just reminded me, because when you said the reclaimed and reused repurposed materials, I love that. I'm also a bit of a, I shouldn't say a bit, I'm a lot of a whimsical designer. So I tend not to do a lot of modern contemporary work because it's just not in alignment generally with my preferred aesthetic, even though as a designer, you adapt to your client.

But there's things about modern contemporary design that also don't always align with my values. So I just tend to not do a lot of that. Right. And I love, I love reclaimed repurposed materials, but also keeping the materials you have on site. It's sustainability 101. Just last year we did, I'm so excited to see how this fills in. So we're going to take pictures this year.

Yeah.

speaker-0 (42:44.696)

but my largest native garden to date. we didn't, there was no rain garden, there's no stormwater management that had to be installed because it was primarily flat and very well draining. So we didn't want to, we just didn't change the landforms, right? We left the topography as is. But we took out so much turf to put in these new native gardens.

And very much like Piet Uldolf, like I love his swaths, right? Of like these masked plantings that kind of gel into each other and blend in. So we did this garden, which was, I want to say, close to 15K in pretty much material. Right? Like it's the whole front yard. So there is still turf. I couldn't quite convince them to get rid of the lawn, but we took out a lot of the lawn.

Wow.

speaker-0 (43:44.894)

And what we did was we didn't just scrape off all of that, you know, all that turf and then dispose of it. We turned it upside down on site and we brought in garden builder soil and we put it on top. So we had, we did that lasagna gardening, right? So for anybody tuning in who's maybe not familiar, Michael, I'm sure you are, but when you're cutting out a new garden, so many people, take that turf, that grass, the sod, and they try and dispose of it.

Well, landfills don't take it. It's considered contaminated soil and it is heavy, like super heavy. You're usually charged to dispose of it, but that is filled with all of these bugs, right? And you have all of this micro micro hygiene and all this great stuff in there. So by taking this out and kind of, you know, you don't want to shave the topsoil and then get rid of it. That's where all the good things are. So we take it.

yeah.

speaker-0 (44:41.048)

turn it upside down, so grass side down, and then we're putting in cardboard that doesn't have any staples or dyes or tape on it. Putting that down, soaking it with a hose, right, so it already starts to decompose, and then we're bringing in new garden builder soil. So that's a, like a triple mix usually, it's got sand, it's got organic matter, compost, and then we're planting in that. So we kind of created these, I don't know how to describe it, but

Great.

speaker-1 (45:03.277)

Right.

Yeah, it's smart.

speaker-0 (45:11.374)

There's a huge long, almost a rectangle between the house and the road. And we created this bermed garden that the street gets this one view of plants. But then from the house, you don't see the street and you see this other view. So I'm really excited to see how that... So long story short, sorry, that was such a... I'm really good at these rabbit holes lately. But reclaiming and reusing material. So whether that's your sod...

Wow, cool.

speaker-0 (45:40.238)

Right? Turning that upside down. Cardboard, which the client had, so we used their cardboard. Another thing, I saw a garden this past year on a Jay McKinnon. He did his first ever garden tour where you got to go in and see installs that he's done over the years. He's a great stone guy here in London. His work is phenomenal. But one of the houses...

Perfect.

speaker-0 (46:09.538)

I'm sure I've got pictures somewhere. I should find these. When the client moved in and they started digging for a patio, they found all of these really old clay bricks with company stamps on them from our city. So it was some sort of London, Ontario brickworks. And there was yellow bricks and there was red and there was brown, all these different colors. And they created a pathway.

Wow.

speaker-1 (46:33.134)

For sure. Yeah, that type of stuff. Yeah. Yeah, no, you'd be silly to.

Why would you get rid of these?

they were beautiful. anyway, yes, reclaimed material, repurposed material. Yes, John Bright is another one. did.

yeah, I follow him on Instagram.

Yeah, have you seen his backyard? Not in person, but... And it's all reclaimed wood. It's skids and recycled pieces of wood.

speaker-1 (46:51.828)

Yes, beautiful. I've seen it online, yeah.

speaker-1 (47:01.774)

Very cool. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, that seems on brand for him. He seems like a kind of guy who would try to squeeze the most out of all materials as we all should be doing. Yeah.

Another very talented designer out there. So shout out to John Bright. Yeah. What else was I going to add about that? Man, why is it January? Now I'm all excited to do gardens again. You're like invigorating me to like get out there and do a site visit. But I really should focus on the 16 designs that I haven't started yet.

Right?

speaker-1 (47:28.502)

I know,

speaker-1 (47:36.418)

Yeah, you're gonna do that first and in your talk at Congress too, which is next week, right?

Yeah, today is the third and I talk at Congress on the eighth about AI and designing for climate change. It's gonna be great.

Yep. Yep. Speaking of presentations, I'm going to be, I think around February, March, I'm going to be hosting a series of four presentations that I'm just going to be delivering online. different themes that I've been workshopping and developing presentations for. topics are pretty set.

But I'll be posting that on my Instagram. If you get my newsletter, you would already know about this. I'm not saying you, I'm saying in general people. That's good. Yeah, you can find that on my website of sestormwater.com. But yeah, I'm going to be just free to anyone. then the play is probably what I'm going to do is put them on my website after the fact.

Sign up for the newsletter.

speaker-1 (48:42.89)

But if you want to come in and see it live and ask me questions, then that will be likely February, March time.

March. Okay, so is that gonna be an in-person event in Hamilton?

No, I'll be doing it online. Now, just because it's winter and you never know how, know, that's snowstorms, people stay home in the winter. So I'll probably pick a block of four weeks and do one topic, you know, every Thursday for four weeks, whatever it might be. And you can sign up for all four. You can sign up for one. Completely user's choice.

Online. Okay.

speaker-0 (49:17.196)

and that's going to be on your website. And will it be a ticketed event?

No, I'm going to, so what I'm planning on doing is doing those, doing, hosting the, the in-person hosting the live webinars for free. Yeah. I'll likely put the recorded versions, nice on my website, likely for, you know, 10 bucks, 20 bucks to get access. Yeah.

smart that's evergreen right when we're talking about course creation and making your business evergreen so you create something once and then you can sell it over and over and over again

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I do enjoy presenting. haven't really had the I won't have the chance to be at Congress. So I'm going to miss the seeing the presentation. So this is my

you miss you know Congress than missing the birth of your second child.

speaker-1 (50:10.83)

Yeah, I'm gonna want to I'm gonna want to be there for that, right?

So talk about prioritizing. I think you've done the right thing. You're forgiven. You get this free pass this one time, not going to Congress.

You're right.

speaker-1 (50:23.18)

I appreciate that. And the last thing I'll say is that I am going to be doing a live presentation for the Charlotte Garden Club in Charlotte, North Carolina in April. So I'm going down there for that and I'm super excited about that.

That's epic. See this in like the last minute, Michael.

Yeah, yeah. So sorry. Yeah. Yeah. My friend J. Sifford, who I just met through Instagram, inviting me down there. If you don't follow J. Sifford on Instagram, S-I-F-F-O-R-D, you need to. He is one of my favorite landscape designers. He's a master of materials. I know we've talked about materials, but I'm so excited to go down there and meet him and see his place and speak to his garden club.

I am following Jay Setford. I just needed to double check. yeah! I just saw him! Okay, sorry. My brain got all excited as soon as I saw his face. Now I recognize who it is. Love his videos. okay. Well, you'll have to virtually introduce me because I am a big fan. So, well that's going to be exciting. And you're traveling to the States?

Yeah, he's great.

speaker-1 (51:19.342)

Yeah, he's great.

speaker-1 (51:25.422)

Sure, I will.

speaker-1 (51:32.184)

Yeah, it looks like it. Okay.

fun. I can't because my social media would probably put me in jail. But aside from that, I'm very excited for you. So that's gonna be awesome. That's in April. Again, cheering you from the sidelines. Thank you. Very cool. That's another one of my bucket list items is to become an international speaker. So far I've done a couple provinces like virtually, but I'd like to do it in person.

So.

speaker-0 (52:04.088)

somewhere in the state.

It's full. Yeah. Yeah. It'll happen. Put it the vision board.

on the vision board. There you go, Michael. Awesome. It is always a pleasure talking with you. I just love following your stuff on Instagram. I am going to go to Amazon right now and buy your book. So let's get that book up there because if it's anything, I mean the first one was amazing. So the second one is just gonna be more amazing.

Yeah, you'll have to let me know what you think about it. And if there's any, I truly mean this, if there's anything in there that you were expecting me to talk about that I didn't talk about, let me know.

I will. You hold me to that. Okay, Michael, I will see you again next time. All the best with your new arrival that's coming. I will be watching Instagram and finding out which what kind of crocheted something I can send your way.

speaker-1 (52:58.304)

Yes, that's right. And good luck at Congress with your presentation.

Thank you, I will need it, but I'm feeling good. good. Okay, Michael, all the best and I am sure I will see you again.

Good.

speaker-1 (53:11.182)

See you Heather, thank you. Cheers.

Guest Information/Contact

Michael Albanese Email: michael@avesistormwater.com

Check out their website here: https://avesistormwater.com/

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